I don't go out to eat as I used to, to begin with, since COVID. It is not safe, it is not prudent. I order take away. Yet, I don't see this as a huge issue. To drive one needs a driver's license. Saying "I have one" doesn't really cover it. People are dying because of COVID, the economy is being affected, and we worry about showing a piece of paper?
if you don't want to get vaccinated, that's your choice.
However we (_law abiding tax paying citizens_) will not pay for your medical expenses when you end up sick in hospital.
It's that simple. If you are vaccinated, we'll take care of you.
Why should we continue this stupid silly rhetoric of going down a totalitarian path? -- For example in Australia we're already considered a "Nanny state", we have been for some time now and it's fucking frustrating as hell
if you don't want to get vaccinated, that's your choice.
However we (_law abiding tax paying citizens_) will not pay for your medical expenses when you end up sick in hospital.
It's that simple. If you are vaccinated, we'll take care of you.
Why should we continue this stupid silly rhetoric of going down a totalitarian path? -- For example in Australia we're already considered a "Nanny state", we have been for some time now and it's fucking frustrating as hell
> People are dying because of COVID, the economy is being affected, and we worry about showing a piece of paper?
It's not the piece of paper I don't think anyone has an _issue_ with, I myself have such a piece of actual paper. The problem is our privacy. Or at least that's my issue and I share this with @stutteringsteve -- In Australia, at least in Queensland, you can choose to have your "vaccination" certification tied to your Government ID and then on this silly COVID Check-in QR-code based App. So no, I choose not to do this, I'll carry a piece of paper until this all blows over (_which I'm hoping it will_).
> People are dying because of COVID, the economy is being affected, and we worry about showing a piece of paper?
It's not the piece of paper I don't think anyone has an _issue_ with, I myself have such a piece of actual paper. The problem is our privacy. Or at least that's my issue and I share this with @stutteringsteve -- In Australia, at least in Queensland, you can choose to have your "vaccination" certification tied to your Government ID and then on this silly COVID Check-in QR-code based App. So no, I choose not to do this, I'll carry a piece of paper until this all blows over (_which I'm hoping it will_).
I also read that, after recently changing the policy to require proof of vaccination for entry to all liquor and cannabis shops, Quebec saw a big spike in vaccine appointments. ^x^
Here is how I approach this whole thing: I am not a trained physician. I don’t have the slightest idea how the human body works, especially not the immune system. I am absolutely certain, though, that I cannot teach myself these things in a couple of months. And most importantly, I cannot learn this stuff from short articles posted by someone on the Internet. Reading that article that tamer linked, uhm, yeah, I don’t have the knowledge to ascertain whether the article is true or utter garbage.
This is a problem. I, myself, don’t know what’s going on, I don’t know how things work, I don’t know what will harm me and what won’t. So what now? I turn to people who I trust and who have studied in these fields. People who spent years or decades trying to figure it out. I ask *several* of those people who I know personally (my doctors) about their opinion on the matter, and I look for public figures who appear to be knowledgable in those fields and check their opinion, and then I *hope* that they reach a consensus.
This has led me *to assume* (not *to know*) that vaccines are a good idea.
Is this a perfect process? No. They could be wrong. They could be greedy capitalists who just sell me garbage or even harmful stuff, so I become their future patient. This is possible, but, frankly, somewhat unlikely, because I’ve known some of these people for many years. I could *still* be wrong! But you know what? If I tried to figure all this out by myself, I’d be *100% wrong*, because, remember, I’m not a trained physician and I have absolutely zero idea how any of this works.
Here is how I approach this whole thing: I am not a trained physician. I don’t have the slightest idea how the human body works, especially not the immune system. I am absolutely certain, though, that I cannot teach myself these things in a couple of months. And most importantly, I cannot learn this stuff from short articles posted by someone on the Internet. Reading that article that tamer linked, uhm, yeah, I don’t have the knowledge to ascertain whether the article is true or utter garbage.
This is a problem. I, myself, don’t know what’s going on, I don’t know how things work, I don’t know what will harm me and what won’t. So what now? I turn to people who I trust and who have studied in these fields. People who spent years or decades trying to figure it out. I ask *several* of those people who I know personally (my doctors) about their opinion on the matter, and I look for public figures who appear to be knowledgable in those fields and check their opinion, and then I *hope* that they reach a consensus.
This has led me *to assume* (not *to know*) that vaccines are a good idea.
Is this a perfect process? No. They could be wrong. They could be greedy capitalists who just sell me garbage or even harmful stuff, so I become their future patient. This is possible, but, frankly, somewhat unlikely, because I’ve known some of these people for many years. I could *still* be wrong! But you know what? If I tried to figure all this out by myself, I’d be *100% wrong*, because, remember, I’m not a trained physician and I have absolutely zero idea how any of this works.
Here is how I approach this whole thing: I am not a trained physician. I don’t have the slightest idea how the human body works, especially not the immune system. I am absolutely certain, though, that I cannot teach myself these things in a couple of months. And most importantly, I cannot learn this stuff from short articles posted by someone on the Internet. Reading that article that tamer linked, uhm, yeah, I don’t have the knowledge to ascertain whether the article is true or utter garbage.
This is a problem. I, myself, don’t know what’s going on, I don’t know how things work, I don’t know what will harm me and what won’t. So what now? I turn to people who I trust and who have studied in these fields. People who spent years or decades trying to figure it out. I ask *several* of those people who I know personally (my doctors) about their opinion on the matter, and I look for public figures who appear to be knowledgable in those fields and check their opinion, and then I *hope* that they reach a consensus.
This has led me *to assume* (not *to know*) that vaccines are a good idea.
Is this a perfect process? No. They could be wrong. They could be greedy capitalists who just sell me garbage or even harmful stuff, so I become their future patient. This is possible, but, frankly, somewhat unlikely, because I’ve known some of these people for many years. I could *still* be wrong! But you know what? If I tried to figure all this out by myself, I’d be *100% wrong*, because, remember, I’m not a trained physician and I have absolutely zero idea how any of this works.
We live in the 21th century, so don't tell me we don't have the technology to link the certificate to the ID card, or another thing we already carry and give the people checking them some device that can check that.
Would tamer had done some research, he would have found mRNA vaccines do not alter DNA; tamer would have known more about the myths and facts on the COVID vaccines. But then again, governments are bad, who is going to trust them, right? Better trust another nut-job's "article" on WordPres.com, because, you know, and again, government is bad, medical experts don't know shit, and the ideas of this person I know nothing about sound more down my alley. After all, tamer believes "real misinformation is coming from Bill Gates, big pharma, Soros". Boys and girls, we've won the fucking lottery!
I am willing to bet tamer also believes Trump was cheated on the election, that Hillary drinks children blood, that Q is real. With a thick New Yorkian accent, get the fuck outta here!
Oh, and in case it wasn't clear, plunk.
Would tamer had done some research, he would have found mRNA vaccines do not alter DNA; tamer would have known more about the myths and facts on the COVID vaccines. But then again, governments are bad, who is going to trust them, right? Better trust another nut-job's "article" on WordPres.com, because, you know, and again, government is bad, medical experts don't know shit, and the ideas of this person I know nothing about sound more down my alley. After all, tamer believes "real misinformation is coming from Bill Gates, big pharma, Soros". Boys and girls, we've won the fucking lottery!
I am willing to bet tamer also believes Trump was cheated on the election, that Hillary drinks children blood, that Q is real. With a thick New Yorkian accent, get the fuck outta here!
Oh, and in case it wasn't clear, splunk.
> But if anybody advocates for a totalitarian solution, not respecting my informed choice then that is a violation of my rights, do you agree with that statement?
I cannot answer that question, because a) it is not clear what you are talking about, b) you are not the only person on this planet.
Let me elaborate on “b)” and I’ll make a more general statement here.
If you contract covid, then there’s a risk of you infecting other people or you needing a hospital bed. This means that *your actions affect other people*. So, your rights have to be weighed against other people’s rights. I strongly believe that your right not to wear a mask (is that a *right*, by the way?) is not as important as somebody else not getting sick. Wearing a mask is a minor inconvenience; getting covid is serious and life-threatening. That other person’s right to stay healthy outweighs your right not to wear a mask. Similarly, if you don’t want to get a vaccine (for whatever reason), then you should accept certain consequences. In my country, this means (in theory) getting tested more often than vaccinated people or not being allowed to attend certain events (concerts, sports or whatever). Because, again, your “right” to watch a soccer match does not outweigh another person’s right to not get sick.
To me, this is the core of this whole thing: Your actions affect other people. And this means it’s getting really complicated. We, as a society, as a species, have to find a way to overcome this disease. This should be our common goal. I don’t see that happening, though. Various actors derail everything in various directions.
> But if anybody advocates for a totalitarian solution, not respecting my informed choice then that is a violation of my rights, do you agree with that statement?
I cannot answer that question, because a) it is not clear what you are talking about, b) you are not the only person on this planet.
Let me elaborate on “b)” and I’ll make a more general statement here.
If you contract covid, then there’s a risk of you infecting other people or you needing a hospital bed. This means that *your actions affect other people*. So, your rights have to be weighed against other people’s rights. I strongly believe that your right not to wear a mask (is that a *right*, by the way?) is not as important as somebody else not getting sick. Wearing a mask is a minor inconvenience; getting covid is serious and life-threatening. That other person’s right to stay healthy outweighs your right not to wear a mask. Similarly, if you don’t want to get a vaccine (for whatever reason), then you should accept certain consequences. In my country, this means (in theory) getting tested more often than vaccinated people or not being allowed to attend certain events (concerts, sports or whatever). Because, again, your “right” to watch a soccer match does not outweigh another person’s right to not get sick.
To me, this is the core of this whole thing: Your actions affect other people. And this means it’s getting really complicated. We, as a society, as a species, have to find a way to overcome this disease. This should be our common goal. I don’t see that happening, though. Various actors derail everything in various directions.
> But if anybody advocates for a totalitarian solution, not respecting my informed choice then that is a violation of my rights, do you agree with that statement?
I cannot answer that question, because a) it is not clear what you are talking about, b) you are not the only person on this planet.
Let me elaborate on “b)” and I’ll make a more general statement here.
If you contract covid, then there’s a risk of you infecting other people or you needing a hospital bed. This means that *your actions affect other people*. So, your rights have to be weighed against other people’s rights. I strongly believe that your right not to wear a mask (is that a *right*, by the way?) is not as important as somebody else not getting sick. Wearing a mask is a minor inconvenience; getting covid is serious and life-threatening. That other person’s right to stay healthy outweighs your right not to wear a mask. Similarly, if you don’t want to get a vaccine (for whatever reason), then you should accept certain consequences. In my country, this means (in theory) getting tested more often than vaccinated people or not being allowed to attend certain events (concerts, sports or whatever). Because, again, your “right” to watch a soccer match does not outweigh another person’s right to not get sick.
To me, this is the core of this whole thing: Your actions affect other people. And this means it’s getting really complicated. We, as a society, as a species, have to find a way to overcome this disease. This should be our common goal. I don’t see that happening, though. Various actors derail everything in various directions.