# I am the Watcher. I am your guide through this vast new twtiverse.
# 
# Usage:
#     https://watcher.sour.is/api/plain/users              View list of users and latest twt date.
#     https://watcher.sour.is/api/plain/twt                View all twts.
#     https://watcher.sour.is/api/plain/mentions?uri=:uri  View all mentions for uri.
#     https://watcher.sour.is/api/plain/conv/:hash         View all twts for a conversation subject.
# 
# Options:
#     uri     Filter to show a specific users twts.
#     offset  Start index for quey.
#     limit   Count of items to return (going back in time).
# 
# twt range = 1 196279
# self = https://watcher.sour.is?offset=171225
# next = https://watcher.sour.is?offset=171325
# prev = https://watcher.sour.is?offset=171125
[47°09′24″S, 126°43′14″W] Resetting dosimeter
Getting a little sick of AI this, AI that. Yes I'll be left behind while everyone else jumps on the latest thing, but I'm not sure I care.
[47°09′38″S, 126°43′46″W] Dosimeter malfunction
Oh. looks like its 4 chars. git show 64bf
Oh. looks like its 4 chars. git show 64bf
@prologic where was that idea?
@prologic where was that idea?
i feel like we should isolate a subset of markdown that makes sense and built it into lextwt. it already has support for links and images. maybe basic formatting bold, italic. possibly block quote and bullet lists. no tables or footnotes
i feel like we should isolate a subset of markdown that makes sense and built it into lextwt. it already has support for links and images. maybe basic formatting bold, italic. possibly block quote and bullet lists. no tables or footnotes
the stem matching is the same as how GIT does its branch hashes. i think you can stem it down to 2 or 3 sha bytes.

if a client sees someone in a yarn using a byte longer hash it can lengthen to match since it can assume that maybe the other client has a collision that it doesnt know about.
the stem matching is the same as how GIT does its branch hashes. i think you can stem it down to 2 or 3 sha bytes.

if a client sees someone in a yarn using a byte longer hash it can lengthen to match since it can assume that maybe the other client has a collision that it doesnt know about.
@prologic the basic idea was to stem the hash.. so you have a hash abcdef0123456789... any sub string of that hash after the first 6 will match. so abcdef, abcdef012, abcdef0123456 all match the same. on the case of a collision i think we decided on matching the newest since we archive off older threads anyway. the third rule was about growing the minimum hash size after some threshold of collisions were detected.
@prologic the basic idea was to stem the hash.. so you have a hash abcdef0123456789... any sub string of that hash after the first 6 will match. so abcdef, abcdef012, abcdef0123456 all match the same. on the case of a collision i think we decided on matching the newest since we archive off older threads anyway. the third rule was about growing the minimum hash size after some threshold of collisions were detected.
@prologic Wikipedia claims sha1 is vulnerable to a "chosen-prefix attack", which I gather means I can write any two twts I like, and then cause them to have the exact same sha1 hash by appending something. I guess a twt ending in random junk might look suspcious, but perhaps the junk could be worked into an image URL like screenshot. If that's not possible now maybe it will be later.

git only uses sha1 because they're stuck with it: migrating is very hard. There was an effort to move git to sha256 but I don't know its status. I think there is progress being made with Game Of Trees, a git clone that uses the same on-disk format.

I can't imagine any benefit to using sha1, except that maybe some very old software might support sha1 but not sha256.
@bender This is the different Markdown parsers being used. Goldmark vs. gomarkdown. We need to switch to Goldmark 😅
@bender This is the different Markdown parsers being used. Goldmark vs. gomarkdown. We need to switch to Goldmark 😅
@prologic yes, like they show here: https://ferengi.one/#uebsf7a
@quark i'm guessing the quotas text should've been emphasized?
@quark i'm guessing the quotas text should've been emphasized?
@slashdot NahahahahHa 🤣 So glad I don't use LinkedIn 🤦‍♂️
@slashdot NahahahahHa 🤣 So glad I don't use LinkedIn 🤦‍♂️
@falsifian No u don't sorry. But I tend to agree with you and I think if we continue to use hashes we should keep the remainder in mind as we choose truncation values of N
@falsifian No u don't sorry. But I tend to agree with you and I think if we continue to use hashes we should keep the remainder in mind as we choose truncation values of N
@falsifian Mostly because Git uses it 🤣 Known attacks that would affect our use? 🤔
@falsifian Mostly because Git uses it 🤣 Known attacks that would affect our use? 🤔
@xuu I don't recall where that discussion ended up being though?
@xuu I don't recall where that discussion ended up being though?
@bender wut da fuq?! 🤣
@bender wut da fuq?! 🤣
@xuu you mean my original idea of basically just automatically detecting Twt edits from the client side?
@xuu you mean my original idea of basically just automatically detecting Twt edits from the client side?
@xuu this is where you would need to prove that the editor delete request actually came from that feed author. Hence why integrity is much more important here.
@xuu this is where you would need to prove that the editor delete request actually came from that feed author. Hence why integrity is much more important here.
@falsifian without supporting dudes properly though you're running into GDP issues and the right to forget. 🤣 we've had pretty lengthy discussions about this in the past years ago as well, but we never came to a conclusion. We're all happy with.
@falsifian without supporting dudes properly though you're running into GDP issues and the right to forget. 🤣 we've had pretty lengthy discussions about this in the past years ago as well, but we never came to a conclusion. We're all happy with.
🧮 USERS:1 FEEDS:2 TWTS:1097 ARCHIVED:79000 CACHE:2495 FOLLOWERS:17 FOLLOWING:14
@movq it would work, you are right, however, it has drawbacks, and I think in the long term would create a new set of problems that we would also then have to solve.
@movq it would work, you are right, however, it has drawbacks, and I think in the long term would create a new set of problems that we would also then have to solve.
@david Hah 🤣
@david Hah 🤣
@prologic :-D Thanks! Things can come in cycles, right? This is simply another one. Another cycle, more personal than the other "alter egos".
@prologic :-D Thanks! Things can come in cycles, right? This is simply another one. Another cycle, more personal than the other "alter egos".
@david We'll get there soon™ 🔜
@david We'll get there soon™ 🔜
@david Hah Welcome back! 😅
@david Hah Welcome back! 😅
@aelaraji hey, hey! You are my very first reply! 👋🏻 Cheers!
@aelaraji hey, hey! You are my very first reply! 👋🏻 Cheers!
@david "Hello back" from the other corner of the world! 🫡
@david "Hello back" from the other corner of the world! 🫡
@david "Hello back" from the other corner of the world! 🫡
Incredibly upset---more than you could imagine---because I already made the first mistake, and corrected it (but twtxt.net got it on it's cache, ugh!) :'-( . Can't wait for editing to become a reality!
Incredibly upset---more than you could imagine---because I already made the first mistake, and corrected it (but twtxt.net got it on it's cache, ugh!) :'-( . Can't wait for editing to become a reality!
Alright. My first mentions---which were picked not so randomly, LOL---are @prologic, @lyse, and @movq. I am also posting my first image too, which you see below. That's my neighbourhood, in a "winter" day. Hopefully @prologic will add my domain to his allowed list, so that the image (and any other further) renders.

David's neighbourhood showing a stone sky.
Alright. My first mentions---which were picked not so randomly, LOL---are @prologic, @lyse, and @movq. I am also posting my first image too, which you see below. That's my neighbourhood, in a "winter" day. Hopefully @prologic will add my domain to his allowed list, so that the image (and any other further) renders.

David's neighbourhood showing a stone sky.
Alright, announce_me set to true. Now, who do I pick to be my first mention? Decisions, decisions. Next twtxt will have my first mention(s). :-)
Alright, announce_me set to true. Now, who do I pick to be my first mention? Decisions, decisions. Next twtxt will have my first mention(s). :-)
I have configured my twtxt.txt as simple as possible. I have setup a publish_command on jenny. Hopefully all works fine, and I am good to go. Next will be setting the announce_me to true. Here we go!
I have configured my twtxt.txt as simple as possible. I have setup a publish_command on jenny. Hopefully all works fine, and I am good to go. Next will be setting the announce_me to true. Here we go!
Everything starts at a "hello world". At least around these parts; the nerdy parts.
Everything starts at a "hello world". At least around these parts; the nerdy parts.
@sorenpeter hmm, how does your client handles "a little editing"? I am sure threads would break just as well. 😉
@sorenpeter hmm, how does your client handles "a little editing"? I am sure threads would break just as well. 😉
@prologic, there is a parser bug on parent. Specifically on this portion:


"*If twtxt/Yarn was to grow bigger, then this would become a concern again. *But even Mastodon allows editing*, so how
+much of a problem can it really be? 😅*"
@prologic, there is a parser bug on parent. Specifically on this portion:


"*If twtxt/Yarn was to grow bigger, then this would become a concern again. *But even Mastodon allows editing*, so how
+much of a problem can it really be? 😅*"
@movq going a little sideways on this, "*If twtxt/Yarn was to grow bigger, then this would become a concern again. *But even Mastodon allows editing*, so how much of a problem can it really be? 😅*", wouldn't it preparing for a potential (even if very, very, veeeeery remote) growth be a good thing? Mastodon signs all messages, keeps a history of edits, and it doesn't break threads. It isn't a problem there.😉 It is here.

I think keeping hashes is a must. If anything for that "feels good" feeling.*
@movq going a little sideways on this, "*If twtxt/Yarn was to grow bigger, then this would become a concern again. *But even Mastodon allows editing*, so how much of a problem can it really be? 😅*", wouldn't it preparing for a potential (even if very, very, veeeeery remote) growth be a good thing? Mastodon signs all messages, keeps a history of edits, and it doesn't break threads. It isn't a problem there.😉 It is here.

I think keeping hashes is a must. If anything for that "feels good" feeling.*
@movq Agreed that hashes have a benefit. I came up with a similar example where when I twted about an 11-character hash collision. Perhaps hashes could be made optional somehow. Like, you could use the "replyto" idea and then additionally put a hash somewhere if you want to lock in which version of the twt you are replying to.
There is nothing wrong with how we currently run a diff to see what has been removed. if i build a merkle tree off all the twt hashes in a feed i can use that to verify a twt should be in a feed or not. and gossip that to my peers.
There is nothing wrong with how we currently run a diff to see what has been removed. if i build a merkle tree off all the twt hashes in a feed i can use that to verify a twt should be in a feed or not. and gossip that to my peers.
(Or maybe I’m talking nonsense. That’s known to happen. I’ll go to bed. 😂)
(Or maybe I’m talking nonsense. That’s known to happen. I’ll go to bed. 😂)
(Or maybe I’m talking nonsense. That’s known to happen. I’ll go to bed. 😂)
(Or maybe I’m talking nonsense. That’s known to happen. I’ll go to bed. 😂)
So.. basically a rehash of the email "unsend" requests? What if i was to make a (delete: 5vbi2ea) .. would it delete someone elses twt?
So.. basically a rehash of the email "unsend" requests? What if i was to make a (delete: 5vbi2ea) .. would it delete someone elses twt?
> Brisbane is coming onboard. Roosters are "singing" all around @prologic, and the dog is begging for the morning poo/pee walk. @prologic throws a slipper at the dog, as he turns around, and hides under his comforter.

😂😂😂
@quark Printing a version? I’ll think about it. 🤔

It would be easy to do for releases, but it’s a little hard to do for all the commits in between – jenny has no build process, so there’s no easy way to incorporate the output of git describe, for example.
@quark Printing a version? I’ll think about it. 🤔

It would be easy to do for releases, but it’s a little hard to do for all the commits in between – jenny has no build process, so there’s no easy way to incorporate the output of git describe, for example.
@quark Printing a version? I’ll think about it. 🤔

It would be easy to do for releases, but it’s a little hard to do for all the commits in between – jenny has no build process, so there’s no easy way to incorporate the output of git describe, for example.
@quark Printing a version? I’ll think about it. 🤔

It would be easy to do for releases, but it’s a little hard to do for all the commits in between – jenny has no build process, so there’s no easy way to incorporate the output of git describe, for example.
isn't the benefit of blake2b that it is a more efficient algo than sha1 and has the same or similar entropy to sha3? i thought we had partially solved this with some type of expanding hash size? additionally we could increase bit density by using base36 or base64/url-safe...
isn't the benefit of blake2b that it is a more efficient algo than sha1 and has the same or similar entropy to sha3? i thought we had partially solved this with some type of expanding hash size? additionally we could increase bit density by using base36 or base64/url-safe...
I’m not advocating in either direction, btw. I haven’t made up my mind yet. 😅 Just braindumping here.

The (replyto:…) proposal is definitely more in the spirit of twtxt, I’d say. It’s much simpler, anyone can use it even with the simplest tools, no need for any client code. That is certainly a great property, if you ask me, and it’s things like that that brought me to twtxt in the first place.

I’d also say that in our tiny little community, message integrity simply doesn’t matter. Signed feeds don’t matter. I signed my feed for a while using GPG, someone else did the same, but in the end, nobody cares. The community is so tiny, there’s enough “implicit trust” or whatever you want to call it.

If twtxt/Yarn was to grow bigger, then this would become a concern again. *But even Mastodon allows editing*, so how much of a problem can it really be? 😅

I do have to “admit”, though, that hashes *feel* better. It feels good to know that we can clearly identify a certain twt. It feels more correct and stable.

Hm.

I *suspect* that the (replyto:…) proposal would work just as well in practice.
I’m not advocating in either direction, btw. I haven’t made up my mind yet. 😅 Just braindumping here.

The (replyto:…) proposal is definitely more in the spirit of twtxt, I’d say. It’s much simpler, anyone can use it even with the simplest tools, no need for any client code. That is certainly a great property, if you ask me, and it’s things like that that brought me to twtxt in the first place.

I’d also say that in our tiny little community, message integrity simply doesn’t matter. Signed feeds don’t matter. I signed my feed for a while using GPG, someone else did the same, but in the end, nobody cares. The community is so tiny, there’s enough “implicit trust” or whatever you want to call it.

If twtxt/Yarn was to grow bigger, then this would become a concern again. *But even Mastodon allows editing*, so how much of a problem can it really be? 😅

I do have to “admit”, though, that hashes *feel* better. It feels good to know that we can clearly identify a certain twt. It feels more correct and stable.

Hm.

I *suspect* that the (replyto:…) proposal would work just as well in practice.
I’m not advocating in either direction, btw. I haven’t made up my mind yet. 😅 Just braindumping here.

The (replyto:…) proposal is definitely more in the spirit of twtxt, I’d say. It’s much simpler, anyone can use it even with the simplest tools, no need for any client code. That is certainly a great property, if you ask me, and it’s things like that that brought me to twtxt in the first place.

I’d also say that in our tiny little community, message integrity simply doesn’t matter. Signed feeds don’t matter. I signed my feed for a while using GPG, someone else did the same, but in the end, nobody cares. The community is so tiny, there’s enough “implicit trust” or whatever you want to call it.

If twtxt/Yarn was to grow bigger, then this would become a concern again. *But even Mastodon allows editing*, so how much of a problem can it really be? 😅

I do have to “admit”, though, that hashes *feel* better. It feels good to know that we can clearly identify a certain twt. It feels more correct and stable.

Hm.

I *suspect* that the (replyto:…) proposal would work just as well in practice.
I’m not advocating in either direction, btw. I haven’t made up my mind yet. 😅 Just braindumping here.

The (replyto:…) proposal is definitely more in the spirit of twtxt, I’d say. It’s much simpler, anyone can use it even with the simplest tools, no need for any client code. That is certainly a great property, if you ask me, and it’s things like that that brought me to twtxt in the first place.

I’d also say that in our tiny little community, message integrity simply doesn’t matter. Signed feeds don’t matter. I signed my feed for a while using GPG, someone else did the same, but in the end, nobody cares. The community is so tiny, there’s enough “implicit trust” or whatever you want to call it.

If twtxt/Yarn was to grow bigger, then this would become a concern again. *But even Mastodon allows editing*, so how much of a problem can it really be? 😅

I do have to “admit”, though, that hashes *feel* better. It feels good to know that we can clearly identify a certain twt. It feels more correct and stable.

Hm.

I *suspect* that the (replyto:…) proposal would work just as well in practice.
Hey, @movq, a tiny thing to add to jenny, a -v switch. That way when you twtxt "*That’s an older format that was used before jenny version v23.04*", I can go and run jenny -v, and "duh!" myself on the way to a git pull. :-D
Hey, @movq, a tiny thing to add to jenny, a -v switch. That way when you twtxt "*That’s an older format that was used before jenny version v23.04*", I can go and run jenny -v, and "duh!" myself on the way to a git pull. :-D
@movq ooooh, nice! commit 62a2b7735749f2ff3c9306dd984ad28f853595c5:

> Crawl archived feeds in --fetch-context

Like, very much! :-)
@movq ooooh, nice! commit 62a2b7735749f2ff3c9306dd984ad28f853595c5:

> Crawl archived feeds in --fetch-context

Like, very much! :-)
@falsifian @prologic @lyse

> - editing, if you don't care about message integrity

So that’s the big question, because that’s the only real difference between hashes and the (replyto:…) proposal.

Do we care about message integrity?

With (replyto:…), someone could write a twt, then I reply to it, like “you’re absolutely right!”, and then that person could change their twt to something malicious like “the earth is flat!” And then it would look like I’m a nutcase agreeing with that person. 😅

Hashes (in their current form) prevent that. The thread is broken and my reply clearly refers to something else. That’s good, right?

But now take into account that we want to allow editing anyway. Is there even a point to using hashes anymore? Isn’t message integrity ignored anyway now, at least in practice?

There’s no difference (in practice) between someone writing

2024-09-18T12:34Z Brds are great!

and then editing it to either

2024-09-18T12:34Z (original:#12379) Birds are great! (Whoops, fixed a typo.)

or

2024-09-18T12:34Z (original:#12379) The earth is flat!

The actual original message is (potentially) gone. The only thing that we can be sure of now is that the twt was edited in *some* way. *Essentially*, the actual twt message is no longer part of the hash, is it? What does #12379 refer to? The edited message or the original one? We *want* it to refer to the edited one, because we don’t want to break threads, so … what’s the point of using a hash?
@falsifian @prologic @lyse

> - editing, if you don't care about message integrity

So that’s the big question, because that’s the only real difference between hashes and the (replyto:…) proposal.

Do we care about message integrity?

With (replyto:…), someone could write a twt, then I reply to it, like “you’re absolutely right!”, and then that person could change their twt to something malicious like “the earth is flat!” And then it would look like I’m a nutcase agreeing with that person. 😅

Hashes (in their current form) prevent that. The thread is broken and my reply clearly refers to something else. That’s good, right?

But now take into account that we want to allow editing anyway. Is there even a point to using hashes anymore? Isn’t message integrity ignored anyway now, at least in practice?

There’s no difference (in practice) between someone writing

2024-09-18T12:34Z Brds are great!

and then editing it to either

2024-09-18T12:34Z (original:#12379) Birds are great! (Whoops, fixed a typo.)

or

2024-09-18T12:34Z (original:#12379) The earth is flat!

The actual original message is (potentially) gone. The only thing that we can be sure of now is that the twt was edited in *some* way. *Essentially*, the actual twt message is no longer part of the hash, is it? What does #12379 refer to? The edited message or the original one? We *want* it to refer to the edited one, because we don’t want to break threads, so … what’s the point of using a hash?
@falsifian @prologic @lyse

> - editing, if you don't care about message integrity

So that’s the big question, because that’s the only real difference between hashes and the (replyto:…) proposal.

Do we care about message integrity?

With (replyto:…), someone could write a twt, then I reply to it, like “you’re absolutely right!”, and then that person could change their twt to something malicious like “the earth is flat!” And then it would look like I’m a nutcase agreeing with that person. 😅

Hashes (in their current form) prevent that. The thread is broken and my reply clearly refers to something else. That’s good, right?

But now take into account that we want to allow editing anyway. Is there even a point to using hashes anymore? Isn’t message integrity ignored anyway now, at least in practice?

There’s no difference (in practice) between someone writing

2024-09-18T12:34Z Brds are great!

and then editing it to either

2024-09-18T12:34Z (original:#12379) Birds are great! (Whoops, fixed a typo.)

or

2024-09-18T12:34Z (original:#12379) The earth is flat!

The actual original message is (potentially) gone. The only thing that we can be sure of now is that the twt was edited in *some* way. *Essentially*, the actual twt message is no longer part of the hash, is it? What does #12379 refer to? The edited message or the original one? We *want* it to refer to the edited one, because we don’t want to break threads, so … what’s the point of using a hash?
@falsifian @prologic @lyse

> - editing, if you don't care about message integrity

So that’s the big question, because that’s the only real difference between hashes and the (replyto:…) proposal.

Do we care about message integrity?

With (replyto:…), someone could write a twt, then I reply to it, like “you’re absolutely right!”, and then that person could change their twt to something malicious like “the earth is flat!” And then it would look like I’m a nutcase agreeing with that person. 😅

Hashes (in their current form) prevent that. The thread is broken and my reply clearly refers to something else. That’s good, right?

But now take into account that we want to allow editing anyway. Is there even a point to using hashes anymore? Isn’t message integrity ignored anyway now, at least in practice?

There’s no difference (in practice) between someone writing

2024-09-18T12:34Z Brds are great!

and then editing it to either

2024-09-18T12:34Z (original:#12379) Birds are great! (Whoops, fixed a typo.)

or

2024-09-18T12:34Z (original:#12379) The earth is flat!

The actual original message is (potentially) gone. The only thing that we can be sure of now is that the twt was edited in *some* way. *Essentially*, the actual twt message is no longer part of the hash, is it? What does #12379 refer to? The edited message or the original one? We *want* it to refer to the edited one, because we don’t want to break threads, so … what’s the point of using a hash?
@movq to paraphrase US Presidents speech on each State of the Union, "the State of the Jenny is strong!" :-D As for the potential upcoming changes, there has to be a knowledgeable head honcho that will agglomerate and coalesce, and guide onto the direction that will be taken. All that with the strong input from the developers that will be implementing the changes, and a lesser (but not less valuable) input from users.
@movq to paraphrase US Presidents speech on each State of the Union, "the State of the Jenny is strong!" :-D As for the potential upcoming changes, there has to be a knowledgeable head honcho that will agglomerate and coalesce, and guide onto the direction that will be taken. All that with the strong input from the developers that will be implementing the changes, and a lesser (but not less valuable) input from users.
[47°09′45″S, 126°43′35″W] Transfer completed
Better is better than best. Wisdom droplet from the Google developer documentation style guide.
Regarding jenny development: There have been enough changes in the last few weeks, imo. I want to let things settle for a while (potential bugfixes aside) and then I’m going to cut a new release.

And I guess the release after that is going to include all the threading/hashing stuff – if we can decide on one of the proposals. 😂