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Amd of course, TDD! I tried that, but it doesn't work all that great for me in its strict form. I have the feeling that coming up with a single new failing test, making it pass, maybe some refactoring, rinse and repeat wastes significantly more time than doing it in – what they call – the "bundle" approach. Coming up with several tests in advance and then writing the code or vise versa is usually much quicker. I do find that more enjoyable, it also helps me to reduce smaller context switches. I can focus on either the tests or the production code.
As for the potentially reduced code coverage with a non-TDD approach, I can easily see which parts are lacking tests and hand them in later. So, that's largely a specious argument. Granted, I can forget to check the coverage or simply ignore it.
I agree with John, TDD results in less elegant code or requires more refactoring to tidy it up. Sometimes, it's also not entirely clear at the beginning how the API should really look like. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. Especially when experimenting or trying out different approaches. With TDD, I then also have to refactor the tests which is not only annoying, but also involves the danger of accidentally breaking them.
TDD only works really well, if you have super tiny functions. But we already established that I typically don't like tiny methods just for the purpose of them being extremely short.
When fixing a bug, I usually come up with a failing test case first to verify that my repaired code later actually resolves the problem. For new code, it depends, sometimes tests first, sometimes the productive code first. Starting off with the tests requires the API to be well defined beforehand.
"So old, but so old, that not even the Internet knows what it is!"
Dear Internet, can you prove them wrong and tell me what "Heller" from this tin box used to be? "Heller", a metal logo on a tin box' lid, both a bit rusty.
"So old, but so old, that not even the Internet knows what it is!"
Dear Internet, can you prove them wrong and tell me what "Heller" from this tin box used to be? "Heller", a metal logo on a tin box' lid, both a bit rusty.
@andros Just before the pandemic, we watched Uncle Bob videos once a week in the lunch break. While almost all of my old teammates agreed with his views, I partially found them to be very odd and even counterproductive.
I didn't come across John Ousterhout or any of his work before, at least not deliberately. So, this document is my first contact.
I only finished the chapter on comments and I totally agree with John so far. This document just manifests to me how weird Bob's view is on certain subjects.
I always disagreed with the concept of a maximum method length. Sure, generally, shorter functions are probably better, but it always depends. And I've certainly seen super short methods that just made the code flow even worse to follow. While "one function should only do one thing" is a nice general rule, I'm 100% in team John with the shown examples. There are cases, where this doesn't help readability at all. Not even close.
To me, a function always has to justify its existence. Either by reusing it at least at another place or by coming up with dedicated tests for it. But if it is just called once and there are no tests, I almost always decide against it. Personally, I don't mind longer methods. We just recently had a discussion about that and I lost against two other workmates who are more in Uncle Bob's camp, they refactored one medium sized method into three very short ones. Luckily, we agree on most other topics.
Lol, what!? The shorter the method, the longer the variables inside? I first thought I misread or the writeup mixed it up. I'll always do it the other way around.
I've been also bitten badly by outdated comments in the past, but Bob must have worked on really terrible projects to end up with such an attitude to dislike comments. Oh well. No doubt, I've come across by several orders of magnitude more useless comments, in my experience (autogenerated) JavaDocs fall in the category more frequently than not. So, I know that there are different types of comments. A comment doesn't automatically mean that it is good and justified.
But I also partially agree with Bob and John and think that a good name has a proper chance to save a comment. Though, when in doubt, I go John's route and use a shorter name with a comment rather than use a kilometer long identifier. Writing good comments typically takes some time, sometimes much longer than writing the code. It regularly takes me several minutes. It's a hard art.
I perhaps should read up on John's work. He seems to be more reasonable and likeminded. :-) Let me continue to complete this document.
I know, the great is enemy of the good, we all have Things To Do (TM), and that's not your core business.
I've heard it all, and I know: there is a million reasons not to do something, specially if it doesn't affect you particularly. That’s why we (still?) have buildings with stairs but no ramps, digital systems without backups... or infrastructure running on proprietary third-parties.
I know, I've heard it all. You'd love to, but you really don't have an alternative to google docs yet, zoom can't be that bad anyway since everyone seems to use it, and here's our form you have to fill in - hosted by Qualtrics. Between the "you don't care because it isn't a problem to you" and the "I get you, I really do, but I don’t have the means to switch", we both know that your parents group will either remain on WhatsApp or move away from it "soon".
The problem is, it is already too late. What if there's someone needing their union, but the conversation happens over slack?
I know, the great is enemy of the good, we all have Things To Do (TM), and that's not your core business.
I've heard it all, and I know: there is a million reasons not to do something, specially if it doesn't affect you particularly. That’s why we (still?) have buildings with stairs but no ramps, digital systems without backups... or infrastructure running on proprietary third-parties.
I know, I've heard it all. You'd love to, but you really don't have an alternative to google docs yet, zoom can't be that bad anyway since everyone seems to use it, and here's our form you have to fill in - hosted by Qualtrics. Between the "you don't care because it isn't a problem to you" and the "I get you, I really do, but I don’t have the means to switch", we both know that your parents group will either remain on WhatsApp or move away from it "soon".
The problem is, it is already too late. What if there's someone needing their union, but the conversation happens over slack?
@doesnmppsflt this one is the safest feed to follow. Quark's will cease to exist, as I am not renewing the domain. Bender's will eventually fade away too, I am afraid. "No show, however good, can last forever." :-)
@doesnmppsflt this one is the safest feed to follow. Quark's will cease to exist, as I am not renewing the domain. Bender's will eventually fade away too, I am afraid. "No show, however good, can last forever." :-)
Tem um livro aberto muito legal do VanderPlas que eu costumo indicar que chama "A Whirlwind Tour of #Python" (https://jakevdp.github.io/WhirlwindTourOfPython/) e eu sempre penso que é tipo uma "Turnê furacão pelo Python" 😂 foto da trupe "Carreta Furacão' com o logo das cobrinhas do Python sobrepondo o personagem do meio.
This document is the result of a series of discussions between Robert "Uncle Bob" Martin and John Ousterhout, held between September 2024 and February 2025. The text addresses three main topics: method length, comments, and Test Driven Development (TDD). https://github.com/johnousterhout/aposd-vs-clean-code/blob/main/README.md This is something to read and reflect on for days.
This document is the result of a series of discussions between Robert "Uncle Bob" Martin and John Ousterhout, held between September 2024 and February 2025. The text addresses three main topics: method length, comments, and Test Driven Development (TDD). https://github.com/johnousterhout/aposd-vs-clean-code/blob/main/README.md This is something to read and reflect on for days.
I read a lot about Clean Code, SOLID, TDD, DDD... now I'm discovering «A Philosophy of Software Design»... but nobody talks about the importance of the project architecture. Do we depend on the framework to do the work for us? You know I'm a big fan of Clean Architecture, but I feel alone when I share my thoughts on social media or at work. You have to think outside the framework.
I read a lot about Clean Code, SOLID, TDD, DDD... now I'm discovering «A Philosophy of Software Design»... but nobody talks about the importance of the project architecture. Do we depend on the framework to do the work for us? You know I'm a big fan of Clean Architecture, but I feel alone when I share my thoughts on social media or at work. You have to think outside the framework.
Pinellas County - 4 mile run: 4.06 miles, 00:08:50 average pace, 00:35:50 duration late in the evening (fucking work). definitely had the urge to drop a deuce for the majority of it. the pace was comfortable. #running
Pinellas County - 4 mile run: 4.06 miles, 00:08:50 average pace, 00:35:50 duration late in the evening (fucking work). definitely had the urge to drop a deuce for the majority of it. the pace was comfortable. #running
Pinellas County - 4 mile run: 4.06 miles, 00:08:50 average pace, 00:35:50 duration late in the evening (fucking work). definitely had the urge to drop a deuce for the majority of it. the pace was comfortable. #running
I like gopher so far. Probably gonna increment the amount of gopher servers by 1 soon. Could also make custom client and server software for it, since it's so simple.
Fiz uma pesquisa sobre o SNS, dei com uma coisa escrita pela DGS... no Facebook. Li, mas também vi as dezenas de comentários. Todos(!) eles eram comentários de desinformação (antivax), ainda que hovessem dois ou três "comentários de comentários" a tentar por algum juízo naquilo.
Fiz uma pesquisa sobre o SNS, dei com uma coisa escrita pela DGS... no Facebook. Li, mas também vi as dezenas de comentários. Todos(!) eles eram comentários de desinformação (antivax), ainda que hovessem dois ou três "comentários de comentários" a tentar por algum juízo naquilo.
@david Yeah. A horrendously wrong but *simple* solution often outpaces are bit more correct but complex one. Especially if the simple one suggests that oneself doesn't have to change at all and can just continue along. Wishful thinking.
@movq Oh right, I completely forgot about the media! Maybe a sign that they're losing their relevance? The third power appears to be gone or changed sides. Lots of them work on their own abolishment.
@movq@arne Ach Herrjeh, was für ein Interview! O_o Unfassbar. Da kannste den Sender auch gleich dichtmachen, sowas braucht ja echt niemand. Der Moderator hört sich in der Tat arg versprengt an. :-(
@movq Dem Ramelow platzt da ja fast die Hutschnur - verständlicher Weise. uebermedien schreibt: > Den Linken-Politiker Bodo Ramelow traktierte Moderator Dirk Müller mit plumpen Provokationen. Der AfD-Politikerin Beatrix von Storch rollte er einen Verständnis-Flokati aus. >Es war eine verstörende Demonstration politischer Schieflage.
Der Interviewer (Dirk Müller) scheint mir auch nicht ganz koscher. Meine Filterblase wirft zu Ihm Lobhudeleien aus dem versprengten Sektor.
@movq Dem Ramelow platzt da ja fast die Hutschnur - verständlicher Weise. uebermedien schreibt: > Den Linken-Politiker Bodo Ramelow traktierte Moderator Dirk Müller mit plumpen Provokationen. Der AfD-Politikerin Beatrix von Storch rollte er einen Verständnis-Flokati aus. >Es war eine verstörende Demonstration politischer Schieflage. Der Interviewer (Dirk Müller) scheint mir auch nicht ganz koscher. Meine Filterblase wirft zu Ihm Lobhudeleien aus dem versprengten Sektor.
So I contact the Miramar Police West District Station just now to seek help in finding out if a business called Claro Enterprise Solutions located at 3350 SW 148th Ave #400, Miramar, FL 33027, Estados Unidos with phone number +19545177301 actually exists, is legit and to validate the phone number.
Why? Because someone or something from this ASN (network) is doing some stupid shit™ that I had to block at the ASN (_entire network_) level 🤬
TLDR: Enel wanted to use Android Auto in a way there was no API for, today EU's Justice Court said Google is using an abusive dominant position on Android Auto. Enel's issue was solved in the meantime (Google created an API), but the court's decision is still useful: it said "A refusal by an undertaking in a dominant position to ensure that its platform is interoperable with an app of another undertaking, which thereby becomes more attractive, can be abusive". Now, it is time for someone (*hint!*) to try to use a 3rd party Operating System with their Android Auto car, and sue if there are no APIs to make it happen. I can see the interest of folks like e_mydata or @ubports in being able to connect their OS and devices to cars...
TLDR: Enel wanted to use Android Auto in a way there was no API for, today EU's Justice Court said Google is using an abusive dominant position on Android Auto. Enel's issue was solved in the meantime (Google created an API), but the court's decision is still useful: it said "A refusal by an undertaking in a dominant position to ensure that its platform is interoperable with an app of another undertaking, which thereby becomes more attractive, can be abusive". Now, it is time for someone (*hint!*) to try to use a 3rd party Operating System with their Android Auto car, and sue if there are no APIs to make it happen. I can see the interest of folks like e_mydata or @ubports in being able to connect their OS and devices to cars...
> The big established parties are all bad traitors. I blame them and their actions to help raise AfD. They just [don’t?] give a fuck about the ordinary people, they're only concerned about their private gain and power.
To a large degree, yes. But I think the media is also equally at fault. There was absolutely no reason to invite AfD people to *every* event and let them talk. This has been going on for over 10 years. When we give them a stage to spread their hate, are we really surprised that hate spreads … ?
I don’t know the answers to this desaster. I’m beginning to think that people literally just want an outlet for their frustration, nothing more. It’s not about what particular parties actually plan to do. At least I think this applies to people in their 30ies and 40ies.
> The big established parties are all bad traitors. I blame them and their actions to help raise AfD. They just [don’t?] give a fuck about the ordinary people, they're only concerned about their private gain and power.
To a large degree, yes. But I think the media is also equally at fault. There was absolutely no reason to invite AfD people to *every* event and let them talk. This has been going on for over 10 years. When we give them a stage to spread their hate, are we really surprised that hate spreads … ?
I don’t know the answers to this desaster. I’m beginning to think that people literally just want an outlet for their frustration, nothing more. It’s not about what particular parties actually plan to do. At least I think this applies to people in their 30ies and 40ies.
> The big established parties are all bad traitors. I blame them and their actions to help raise AfD. They just \n give a fuck about the ordinary people, they're only concerned about their private gain and power.
To a large degree, yes. But I think the media is also equally at fault. There was absolutely no reason to invite AfD people to *every* event and let them talk. This has been going on for over 10 years. When we give them a stage to spread their hate, are we really surprised that hate spreads … ?
I don’t know the answers to this desaster. I’m beginning to think that people literally just want an outlet for their frustration, nothing more. It’s not about what particular parties actually plan to do. At least I think this applies to people in their 30ies and 40ies.
@prologic mentions randomly break. I tried mentioning @lyse/@movq (in that form), and didn’t work, breaking weirdly, adding twtxt.net to one of them. Then editing added a visible hash.
"Heller", a metal logo on a tin box' lid, both a bit rusty.
foto da trupe "Carreta Furacão' com o logo das cobrinhas do Python sobrepondo o personagem do meio.
A squirrel writing on her laptop