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@thiegui Nobody down here in the depth, either. ✌️
@thiegui Nobody down here in the depth, either. ✌️
@thiegui Nobody down here in the depth, either. ✌️
@prologic Heh, of course you have a *Go* tool for that 😅
@prologic Heh, of course you have a *Go* tool for that 😅
@prologic Heh, of course you have a *Go* tool for that 😅
(Still several orders of magnitude faster than typing directly on my phone. Yes, I feel very old and outdated. 🫤)
(Still several orders of magnitude faster than typing directly on my phone. Yes, I feel very old and outdated. 🫤)
(Still several orders of magnitude faster than typing directly on my phone. Yes, I feel very old and outdated. 🫤)
New favorite Vim config line:

nmap qr :%@qr --ascii

Write some text, then hit <Leader>qr to transform it into a QR code (intended to be scanned with your phone).

Uses python-qrcode.
New favorite Vim config line:

nmap qr :%@qr --ascii

Write some text, then hit <Leader>qr to transform it into a QR code (intended to be scanned with your phone).

Uses python-qrcode.
New favorite Vim config line:

nmap qr :%@qr --ascii

Write some text, then hit <Leader>qr to transform it into a QR code (intended to be scanned with your phone).

Uses python-qrcode.
Yes: https://ploum.net/2023-06-19-more-rms.html
Yes: https://ploum.net/2023-06-19-more-rms.html
Yes: https://ploum.net/2023-06-19-more-rms.html
@lyse Someone told me in a conversation a few years back. (I only found that link to wikipedia yesterday and it appeared to be a good starting point. 😅)

Yes, there’s always disagreement. But there are some things that I don’t want to tolerate/ignore. Also, there’s a difference between “it’s good software, I use it” and “hey, nice community, I want to be a part of it”.
@lyse Someone told me in a conversation a few years back. (I only found that link to wikipedia yesterday and it appeared to be a good starting point. 😅)

Yes, there’s always disagreement. But there are some things that I don’t want to tolerate/ignore. Also, there’s a difference between “it’s good software, I use it” and “hey, nice community, I want to be a part of it”.
@lyse Someone told me in a conversation a few years back. (I only found that link to wikipedia yesterday and it appeared to be a good starting point. 😅)

Yes, there’s always disagreement. But there are some things that I don’t want to tolerate/ignore. Also, there’s a difference between “it’s good software, I use it” and “hey, nice community, I want to be a part of it”.
(When it comes to the suckless project, though, I just don’t know how to deal with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Suckless.org :/ It’s all left a bit ambiguous and there’s never been a clear statement, afaik. Makes me uncomfortable, sorry.)
(When it comes to the suckless project, though, I just don’t know how to deal with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Suckless.org :/ It’s all left a bit ambiguous and there’s never been a clear statement, afaik. Makes me uncomfortable, sorry.)
(When it comes to the suckless project, though, I just don’t know how to deal with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Suckless.org :/ It’s all left a bit ambiguous and there’s never been a clear statement, afaik. Makes me uncomfortable, sorry.)
@lyse Oh, wmii, I totally forgot about that one. :D That was a long, long time ago … I never used wmi, though.
@lyse Oh, wmii, I totally forgot about that one. :D That was a long, long time ago … I never used wmi, though.
@lyse Oh, wmii, I totally forgot about that one. :D That was a long, long time ago … I never used wmi, though.
@lyse Going over the list of their projects, I think mainly dwm and st fall in that category. I also use a few others (dmenu, farbfeld, slock, xssstate, in the past also tabbed) which can be used “as is”. Granted, though, these are also *much* simpler. 😅
@lyse Going over the list of their projects, I think mainly dwm and st fall in that category. I also use a few others (dmenu, farbfeld, slock, xssstate, in the past also tabbed) which can be used “as is”. Granted, though, these are also *much* simpler. 😅
@lyse Going over the list of their projects, I think mainly dwm and st fall in that category. I also use a few others (dmenu, farbfeld, slock, xssstate, in the past also tabbed) which can be used “as is”. Granted, though, these are also *much* simpler. 😅
@lyse That sounds plausible. :) Plus, when they depart, they sometimes turn very quickly and don’t even fly over my head.
@lyse That sounds plausible. :) Plus, when they depart, they sometimes turn very quickly and don’t even fly over my head.
@lyse That sounds plausible. :) Plus, when they depart, they sometimes turn very quickly and don’t even fly over my head.
@lyse To my surprise, st has builtin zoom. 🤯 I use that very often, too.

But vanilla st lacks other features that I, personally, find essential. For example a scrollback buffer. (That’s a very controversial topic in that community …) What you have to do, is go through this list and pick patches that you like:

https://st.suckless.org/patches/

Of course, they don’t all apply cleanly or are outright buggy sometimes, because anyone can push a patch to that list. There’s not really a strong review process.

At the end of the day, when you’re using st, you’re very likely effectively forking it. I’m not entirely sure yet if I’m up for that. 😅 Why do that anyway? Just for the fun of tinkering with it. 😅 The good thing is that upstream development has slowed down considerably in the last few years. It appears to be much more stable these days. Running my own st fork might actually be doable. We’ll see.
@lyse To my surprise, st has builtin zoom. 🤯 I use that very often, too.

But vanilla st lacks other features that I, personally, find essential. For example a scrollback buffer. (That’s a very controversial topic in that community …) What you have to do, is go through this list and pick patches that you like:

https://st.suckless.org/patches/

Of course, they don’t all apply cleanly or are outright buggy sometimes, because anyone can push a patch to that list. There’s not really a strong review process.

At the end of the day, when you’re using st, you’re very likely effectively forking it. I’m not entirely sure yet if I’m up for that. 😅 Why do that anyway? Just for the fun of tinkering with it. 😅 The good thing is that upstream development has slowed down considerably in the last few years. It appears to be much more stable these days. Running my own st fork might actually be doable. We’ll see.
@lyse To my surprise, st has builtin zoom. 🤯 I use that very often, too.

But vanilla st lacks other features that I, personally, find essential. For example a scrollback buffer. (That’s a very controversial topic in that community …) What you have to do, is go through this list and pick patches that you like:

https://st.suckless.org/patches/

Of course, they don’t all apply cleanly or are outright buggy sometimes, because anyone can push a patch to that list. There’s not really a strong review process.

At the end of the day, when you’re using st, you’re very likely effectively forking it. I’m not entirely sure yet if I’m up for that. 😅 Why do that anyway? Just for the fun of tinkering with it. 😅 The good thing is that upstream development has slowed down considerably in the last few years. It appears to be much more stable these days. Running my own st fork might actually be doable. We’ll see.
@lyse The planes like to land “against the wind”. When it’s coming from east, they approach from west towards east (and thus fly over me) – and vice versa. When it’s coming from west, they *take off* towards west, which, for some reason, is quieter than landing. 🥴 Maybe they just climb faster than they descend, I don’t know.
@lyse The planes like to land “against the wind”. When it’s coming from east, they approach from west towards east (and thus fly over me) – and vice versa. When it’s coming from west, they *take off* towards west, which, for some reason, is quieter than landing. 🥴 Maybe they just climb faster than they descend, I don’t know.
@lyse The planes like to land “against the wind”. When it’s coming from east, they approach from west towards east (and thus fly over me) – and vice versa. When it’s coming from west, they *take off* towards west, which, for some reason, is quieter than landing. 🥴 Maybe they just climb faster than they descend, I don’t know.
Once more, I’m toying with st. I actually might switch for real this time. My GTK/VTE terminal does work quite well (as long as I don’t port it from GTK 3 to GTK 4), but dealing with the nitty gritty details in st is just way more interesting. 😅
Once more, I’m toying with st. I actually might switch for real this time. My GTK/VTE terminal does work quite well (as long as I don’t port it from GTK 3 to GTK 4), but dealing with the nitty gritty details in st is just way more interesting. 😅
Once more, I’m toying with st. I actually might switch for real this time. My GTK/VTE terminal does work quite well (as long as I don’t port it from GTK 3 to GTK 4), but dealing with the nitty gritty details in st is just way more interesting. 😅
@stigatle Almost makes me want to do some 3D stuff again, too. 😅 It’s been a while … Maybe it’s better to wait for Winter, though, my machine might overheat. 🥵
@stigatle Almost makes me want to do some 3D stuff again, too. 😅 It’s been a while … Maybe it’s better to wait for Winter, though, my machine might overheat. 🥵
@stigatle Almost makes me want to do some 3D stuff again, too. 😅 It’s been a while … Maybe it’s better to wait for Winter, though, my machine might overheat. 🥵
It finally happened, the wind has changed. The planes are gone (for now).
It finally happened, the wind has changed. The planes are gone (for now).
It finally happened, the wind has changed. The planes are gone (for now).
Ein Papagei, zwei Papa Geier.
Ein Papagei, zwei Papa Geier.
Ein Papagei, zwei Papa Geier.
Renewed the cushions on my headphones → boom, noise cancelling got a lot better again.
Renewed the cushions on my headphones → boom, noise cancelling got a lot better again.
Renewed the cushions on my headphones → boom, noise cancelling got a lot better again.
@lyse 😅

Oh, I wish. “Aliens landed on earth” would be one of the greatest headlines imaginable. I wouldn’t get my hopes up, though. 😅
@lyse 😅

Oh, I wish. “Aliens landed on earth” would be one of the greatest headlines imaginable. I wouldn’t get my hopes up, though. 😅
@lyse 😅

Oh, I wish. “Aliens landed on earth” would be one of the greatest headlines imaginable. I wouldn’t get my hopes up, though. 😅
@prologic Hmm, I’ll have to look into it. 🤔 Probably not what I meant, but interesting nontheless. 👍
@prologic Hmm, I’ll have to look into it. 🤔 Probably not what I meant, but interesting nontheless. 👍
@prologic Hmm, I’ll have to look into it. 🤔 Probably not what I meant, but interesting nontheless. 👍
@prologic Hmm. That would require me to put each and every process into its own namespace, wouldn’t it? I don’t think that’s practical. 🤔 Or maybe I’m misunderstanding.

I’ve never really thought about this, to be honest. There’s no procfs on the BSDs, so I guess that a) it’s not really necessary, b) there should be plenty of rants from BSD users on this issue that I could read. 😅
@prologic Hmm. That would require me to put each and every process into its own namespace, wouldn’t it? I don’t think that’s practical. 🤔 Or maybe I’m misunderstanding.

I’ve never really thought about this, to be honest. There’s no procfs on the BSDs, so I guess that a) it’s not really necessary, b) there should be plenty of rants from BSD users on this issue that I could read. 😅
@prologic Hmm. That would require me to put each and every process into its own namespace, wouldn’t it? I don’t think that’s practical. 🤔 Or maybe I’m misunderstanding.

I’ve never really thought about this, to be honest. There’s no procfs on the BSDs, so I guess that a) it’s not really necessary, b) there should be plenty of rants from BSD users on this issue that I could read. 😅
The day will come when I’ll have to dig up *why* every process can interact with every other process’s file descriptors by means of /proc/$pid/fd on Linux (if it’s the same user). Is there a legitimate reason for that … ? (I know about hidepid, but that doesn’t help here.)
The day will come when I’ll have to dig up *why* every process can interact with every other process’s file descriptors by means of /proc/$pid/fd on Linux (if it’s the same user). Is there a legitimate reason for that … ? (I know about hidepid, but that doesn’t help here.)
The day will come when I’ll have to dig up *why* every process can interact with every other process’s file descriptors by means of /proc/$pid/fd on Linux (if it’s the same user). Is there a legitimate reason for that … ? (I know about hidepid, but that doesn’t help here.)
@prologic

> Have we really gotten that lazy and inefficient? 🤔

That’s the question. It certainly strikes me as odd that everything keeps getting bigger, heavier, slower all the time. But why is that? I refuse to believe that this is just incompetence. 😅
@prologic

> Have we really gotten that lazy and inefficient? 🤔

That’s the question. It certainly strikes me as odd that everything keeps getting bigger, heavier, slower all the time. But why is that? I refuse to believe that this is just incompetence. 😅
@prologic

> Have we really gotten that lazy and inefficient? 🤔

That’s the question. It certainly strikes me as odd that everything keeps getting bigger, heavier, slower all the time. But why is that? I refuse to believe that this is just incompetence. 😅
@abucci Yes, that appears to be the case. I stumbled upon GSK_RENDERER=cairo a while ago – it helps with the startup times and a little bit with memory consumption, which is down to about 130 MB.

Still quite heavy and startup times are noticeably longer than GTK 3. It’s not *that* much, but it’s there.

In my case, I wanted to port xiate from GTK 3 to GTK 4. But that much memory usage for just one terminal window (of which there are usually *many*, so we’re talking about gigabytes here) is too much. GTK might have its use cases, but I think it’s no longer the right toolkit for me.

I don’t want to hate on it too much. I know too little of the internal details of all this, so I don’t have an informed opinion.

(Before anyone suggests it: Yes, I could have *one* process show many terminal windows. That would be a lot faster and would use a lot less memory. But I explicitly do not want that. xiate used to have this model – until one day at work, a bug in the terminal library VTE crashed all my terminal windows at once. It really only crashed one *window*, but since they all ran in the same *process*, they were all gone. This is unacceptable.)
@abucci Yes, that appears to be the case. I stumbled upon GSK_RENDERER=cairo a while ago – it helps with the startup times and a little bit with memory consumption, which is down to about 130 MB.

Still quite heavy and startup times are noticeably longer than GTK 3. It’s not *that* much, but it’s there.

In my case, I wanted to port xiate from GTK 3 to GTK 4. But that much memory usage for just one terminal window (of which there are usually *many*, so we’re talking about gigabytes here) is too much. GTK might have its use cases, but I think it’s no longer the right toolkit for me.

I don’t want to hate on it too much. I know too little of the internal details of all this, so I don’t have an informed opinion.

(Before anyone suggests it: Yes, I could have *one* process show many terminal windows. That would be a lot faster and would use a lot less memory. But I explicitly do not want that. xiate used to have this model – until one day at work, a bug in the terminal library VTE crashed all my terminal windows at once. It really only crashed one *window*, but since they all ran in the same *process*, they were all gone. This is unacceptable.)
@abucci Yes, that appears to be the case. I stumbled upon GSK_RENDERER=cairo a while ago – it helps with the startup times and a little bit with memory consumption, which is down to about 130 MB.

Still quite heavy and startup times are noticeably longer than GTK 3. It’s not *that* much, but it’s there.

In my case, I wanted to port xiate from GTK 3 to GTK 4. But that much memory usage for just one terminal window (of which there are usually *many*, so we’re talking about gigabytes here) is too much. GTK might have its use cases, but I think it’s no longer the right toolkit for me.

I don’t want to hate on it too much. I know too little of the internal details of all this, so I don’t have an informed opinion.

(Before anyone suggests it: Yes, I could have *one* process show many terminal windows. That would be a lot faster and would use a lot less memory. But I explicitly do not want that. xiate used to have this model – until one day at work, a bug in the terminal library VTE crashed all my terminal windows at once. It really only crashed one *window*, but since they all ran in the same *process*, they were all gone. This is unacceptable.)
@thiegui Yeah, crap.
@thiegui Yeah, crap.
@thiegui Yeah, crap.
@lyse I had a look last night. Mars is much more faint than I expected. I could hardly see it with my bare eyes and it’s not much better on photos:

https://movq.de/v/e682fc642d/IMG_5009-annotated.jpg (5184x3456, 4.8 MB)
@lyse I had a look last night. Mars is much more faint than I expected. I could hardly see it with my bare eyes and it’s not much better on photos:

https://movq.de/v/e682fc642d/IMG_5009-annotated.jpg (5184x3456, 4.8 MB)
@lyse I had a look last night. Mars is much more faint than I expected. I could hardly see it with my bare eyes and it’s not much better on photos:

https://movq.de/v/e682fc642d/IMG_5009-annotated.jpg (5184x3456, 4.8 MB)
A GTK 4 application showing an empty window uses about 160 MB of RAM:

$ wget https://movq.de/v/138ab3e622/win.c
$ cc -Wall -Wextra -o win win.c $(pkg-config --cflags --libs gtk4)
$ ./win

It also takes several seconds to start on my machine because it is compiling shaders and initializing DRI (it’s faster on the second run, unless you happen to lose ~/.cache/mesa_shader_cache/). This might be a hint as to why it’s using so much memory: There’s obviously much more going on behind the scenes these days, not just a little bit of internal housekeeping and then creating a window.
A GTK 4 application showing an empty window uses about 160 MB of RAM:

$ wget https://movq.de/v/138ab3e622/win.c
$ cc -Wall -Wextra -o win win.c $(pkg-config --cflags --libs gtk4)
$ ./win

It also takes several seconds to start on my machine because it is compiling shaders and initializing DRI (it’s faster on the second run, unless you happen to lose ~/.cache/mesa_shader_cache/). This might be a hint as to why it’s using so much memory: There’s obviously much more going on behind the scenes these days, not just a little bit of internal housekeeping and then creating a window.
A GTK 4 application showing an empty window uses about 160 MB of RAM:

$ wget https://movq.de/v/138ab3e622/win.c
$ cc -Wall -Wextra -o win win.c $(pkg-config --cflags --libs gtk4)
$ ./win

It also takes several seconds to start on my machine because it is compiling shaders and initializing DRI (it’s faster on the second run, unless you happen to lose ~/.cache/mesa_shader_cache/). This might be a hint as to why it’s using so much memory: There’s obviously much more going on behind the scenes these days, not just a little bit of internal housekeeping and then creating a window.
@prologic Ab-so-lute-ly. 😩
@prologic Ab-so-lute-ly. 😩
@prologic Ab-so-lute-ly. 😩
Time to do the taxes, I guess. 😮‍💨
Time to do the taxes, I guess. 😮‍💨
Time to do the taxes, I guess. 😮‍💨
@jmjl Sway does indeed work as expected. 👌
@jmjl Sway does indeed work as expected. 👌
@jmjl Sway does indeed work as expected. 👌
@jmjl It depends on the compositor. I tried Hyprland earlier and it exposed the problem.

Never heard of interception-tools, looks promising. 🤔 Thanks!
@jmjl It depends on the compositor. I tried Hyprland earlier and it exposed the problem.

Never heard of interception-tools, looks promising. 🤔 Thanks!
@jmjl It depends on the compositor. I tried Hyprland earlier and it exposed the problem.

Never heard of interception-tools, looks promising. 🤔 Thanks!
@jmjl Yes, kind of – I can type on the individual halves, but Shift on the left part plus some letter on the right part doesn’t work. 🫤
@jmjl Yes, kind of – I can type on the individual halves, but Shift on the left part plus some letter on the right part doesn’t work. 🫤
@jmjl Yes, kind of – I can type on the individual halves, but Shift on the left part plus some letter on the right part doesn’t work. 🫤
Ah, damn … I have that nice split keyboard, which I really love (I use it more than my Model M 😅), but it’s actually *two* USB devices. Wayland compositors usually struggle with this. 😢 When Wayland really hits big time, I’ll have to look for another model … Let’s hope the keyboard just breaks in the meantime, otherwise it’s gonna feel a little bit frustrating.
Ah, damn … I have that nice split keyboard, which I really love (I use it more than my Model M 😅), but it’s actually *two* USB devices. Wayland compositors usually struggle with this. 😢 When Wayland really hits big time, I’ll have to look for another model … Let’s hope the keyboard just breaks in the meantime, otherwise it’s gonna feel a little bit frustrating.
Ah, damn … I have that nice split keyboard, which I really love (I use it more than my Model M 😅), but it’s actually *two* USB devices. Wayland compositors usually struggle with this. 😢 When Wayland really hits big time, I’ll have to look for another model … Let’s hope the keyboard just breaks in the meantime, otherwise it’s gonna feel a little bit frustrating.
@lyse Wait, fish? In those little ponds? 😳

Sounds so exhausting. I’ll rather stay indoors during those hot hours. 😅
@lyse Wait, fish? In those little ponds? 😳

Sounds so exhausting. I’ll rather stay indoors during those hot hours. 😅
@lyse Wait, fish? In those little ponds? 😳

Sounds so exhausting. I’ll rather stay indoors during those hot hours. 😅
@abucci By far the best one, though! 😂

@lyse Pretty sure that’s a “rook” (Saatkrähe). Their beak is very distinctive.